As people have said, a rare miss for More Perfect Union. I support improving public transit but not on the backs of the working class. The CSS studies saying that most people won't be affected are flawed. Most importantly, they don't take into account the effect that an added $15 for delivery trucks (food, fuel, etc) will have on the cost of living for average New Yorker. They don't even take into account commuters driving THROUGH Manhattan, out-of-state commuters driving into and THROUGH Manhattan. And, last but certainly not least, they use the wrong poverty level (federal, instead of local )without also taking into account the 50% of NYC residents who are STRUGGLING to cover basic needs (NYC True Cost of Living 2023 study). Tax the rich, not the rest of us.
I can't stand Hochul, but stopping the congestion pricing plan is one of the few right decisions she has made, even if her reasoning is suspect.
There's one group of people whose opinion never seems to be brought up in this debate, and that's the one from those of us who actually live in Manhattan. There needs to be an exception from the toll for us, and it's telling that proponents of congestion pricing have ignored us completely.
I live in Manhattan! Like a vast majority of my neighbors (78% of Manhattanites), I don't own a car and rely on public transportation. It's a nightmare when public transit doesn't work properly, keeping us from our jobs, friends, family, and homes. Congestion in the city is only getting worse, too. Maybe there's another way to fund public transportation and fix congestion; I'm certainly open to ideas.
A progressive income tax (wealthy people pay the most) to first improve public transit, and then afterwards, a congestion tax on non-NYC resident passenger vehicles. Until we have a viable alternative (a speed train w
1 Manhattan stop might work) for just getting across Manhattan, outer borough residents will continue to bear the brunt
I'm not opposed to the plan as a whole, I just think that people who live in Manhattan and do have cars should not be beholden to what is essentially a fee on out-of-towners.
My parents drive out of the city to help take care of my grandmother every weekend. They live on W 64th, the nearest WSH exit is 56th, and the congestion pricing line is exactly halfway between the two. In order to avoid that fee, they would have to start getting off at 79th Street, an exit that's already backed up with traffic more often than not. It's just moving the congestion further north.
I support the intent of the plan, I simply think that people who live here and would be forced to pay an extra fee to get home should actually be considered by anyone on any side of the debate.
Disagreements aside, thank you for all of your hard work, my condolences on the loss of your sister-in-law, and I wish you good fortune and health going forward
Thank you for the kind wishes, deeply appreciated!
I agree that some Manhattanites should get exemptions, and hopefully a new iteration of the plan will allow for that. There’s certainly ways to fix it without throwing the whole thing out!
Agreed! I hope this ends up working out for the best! It's just been frustrating to never see addressed the concerns of Manhattanites who do have cars and travel out of the city a lot for legitimate reasons
The framework for congestion pricing already has a carve out for low income car commutters.
The MTA has been working on this long before she was in office and she herself has been suportive of it up till now for seemingly no reason other than she all of a sudden thinks a small cohort of car commuters have more right to the city than everyone else. Also its already signed into law, how does she get to tell the MTA to stop a project that is already in place?
Right, I think if Hochul were suddenly to have turned a whole new leaf in her career, and become a passionate advocate for disabled people, the working poor, etc, as she's now claiming to have done, then she'd have found a different way to help them than by completely putting the kibosh on a plan that on balance helps many more people who fit those descriptions than it hurts.
Congestion pricing in Manhattan is a gift to the rich residents in Manhattan. There has been very little upgrading of public transportation in decades. The braking system on NYC subways is a 1930s technology. The money that was supposed to update the systems has been squandered by the MTA which is an opaque, secretive organization which is comprised mainly of rich developers and their lackeys just look at the 7 train recent expansion which only served the owners and developers of Hudson Yards. The fact that they tried to force the extension of the 7 train to New Jersey where they also had properties is ample proof of their arrogance and sense of entitlement.
I have been a lifelong rider of NYC mass transit and have waited futilely my whole life to see any real improvement.
I believe that the funds raised will not be used to modernize or improve service but will be an incentive to move money currently in budget to other ends/purposes. Witness the NYS lottery whose funds were going to be used to increase public school funding. As lottery’s funds came in state/city funds were removed from the budget and used to benefit other entities, no net gain from lottery funds to schools.
Can someone clarify, doesn't the congestion pricing mechanism that Governor Hochul obstructed already provide for mechanisms mitigating or refunding most financial burdens on qualifying low income commuters?
Not really, they only give a 50 percent discount if you make under 50k a year, and it only applies to the 10th and above trip to Manhattan. And if you live in Manhattan and make under 60k a year, then you get an exemption, but only in the form of tax credits
I am concerned about congestion pricing personally. It wouldn't just affect people who own cars, it would also affect people like me who have to take Uber/Lyft to get to doctor's appointments because I can't walk as far as the closest subway station to me and the station isn't accessible once I get there. I don't really have the luxury of being able to wait for the revenue to come in and hoping that they modernize my specific station + make it accessible.
It's a mixed bag. It will tax those rich enough not to care, but mostly those too poor to have options. Less cars is good, but most places our infrastructure is very car dependent.
So you think congestion pricing is a good idea? I follow More Perfect Union and guess there is a first time for everything. I have never known you guys to be nearly this short sighted or to have your head's completely up your keisters before. You contrive the one possible benefit while completely ignoring the hundreds of class divide exacerbating effects of such a horrible elitist idea as congestion pricing.
Genuinely curious: if it will benefit millions of people — largely from the working and middle classes — with critical improvements to the public transit they fully rely on, while only costing around 5k outerborough New Yorkers a regular fee thanks to exemptions and other mitigations, how is it elitist, and what would its class war-inflaming impacts be?
Again, I’m genuinely curious. I’m a reporter who tries to view things objectively before collecting all the information I can, but I’m also a New Yorker who doesn’t have a car (88% of Manhannites don’t, and overall, more wealthy New Yorkers have them than any other demographic), would like to be able to get to places without ungodly delays, and also would love my son to grow up with breathable air, so perhaps I missed some of the problems. I’d love to know about them for future reporting!
For the MTA funding, there's plenty of non regressive ways of getting. Wealth tax, increasing income taxes on people making 200k, etc. A congregation tax is a flat tax and the poor will pay a greater share of their wealth/income than the wealthy will. Climate change I agree with, if there's less cars then the air will get better. Another issue is that people who have to drive thru Manhattan but no stop in will have to pay, drivers will likely drive around Manhattan causing other streets/highways to get congested and also cost consumers more in gas due to more miles driven. The best way to get more cars off the road is to make public transit work better and also have public transit agencies in New Jersey and New York work better together
I would absolutely love to see a wealth tax in New York, but Hochul has made it clear that it isn't on the table. Tolls seem like regressive taxes, and in some cases they are, but as we note in the article, there are very few working class people who will be impacted.
As for people who drive through Manhattan but don't stop, they essentially never drive through Midtown; the FDR and West Side Highway are built around the outside of the island and won't be part of the tolls.
Congestion pricing is a terrible idea. They are plenty of less regressive ways of getting the MTA the money they need. I am very disappointed in More Perfect Union. As for congestion pricing working in European cities, unlike the USA they actually have the safety nets and a very good public transit system that can connect multiple towns and cities to make it work. Most working class people cannot afford to live in NYC, and they have to rely on rent stabilized units to live in the city. This law would also cause less people to visit the city causing restaurant workers to have their hours cut, it also affects blue collar workers who need their cars. The congestion tax is either going to be paid by the workers who need their trucks to haul their tools or by consumers who need to pay the congestion tax for contractors to come into Manhattan
As people have said, a rare miss for More Perfect Union. I support improving public transit but not on the backs of the working class. The CSS studies saying that most people won't be affected are flawed. Most importantly, they don't take into account the effect that an added $15 for delivery trucks (food, fuel, etc) will have on the cost of living for average New Yorker. They don't even take into account commuters driving THROUGH Manhattan, out-of-state commuters driving into and THROUGH Manhattan. And, last but certainly not least, they use the wrong poverty level (federal, instead of local )without also taking into account the 50% of NYC residents who are STRUGGLING to cover basic needs (NYC True Cost of Living 2023 study). Tax the rich, not the rest of us.
I can't stand Hochul, but stopping the congestion pricing plan is one of the few right decisions she has made, even if her reasoning is suspect.
There's one group of people whose opinion never seems to be brought up in this debate, and that's the one from those of us who actually live in Manhattan. There needs to be an exception from the toll for us, and it's telling that proponents of congestion pricing have ignored us completely.
I live in Manhattan! Like a vast majority of my neighbors (78% of Manhattanites), I don't own a car and rely on public transportation. It's a nightmare when public transit doesn't work properly, keeping us from our jobs, friends, family, and homes. Congestion in the city is only getting worse, too. Maybe there's another way to fund public transportation and fix congestion; I'm certainly open to ideas.
A progressive income tax (wealthy people pay the most) to first improve public transit, and then afterwards, a congestion tax on non-NYC resident passenger vehicles. Until we have a viable alternative (a speed train w
1 Manhattan stop might work) for just getting across Manhattan, outer borough residents will continue to bear the brunt
I'm not opposed to the plan as a whole, I just think that people who live in Manhattan and do have cars should not be beholden to what is essentially a fee on out-of-towners.
My parents drive out of the city to help take care of my grandmother every weekend. They live on W 64th, the nearest WSH exit is 56th, and the congestion pricing line is exactly halfway between the two. In order to avoid that fee, they would have to start getting off at 79th Street, an exit that's already backed up with traffic more often than not. It's just moving the congestion further north.
I support the intent of the plan, I simply think that people who live here and would be forced to pay an extra fee to get home should actually be considered by anyone on any side of the debate.
Disagreements aside, thank you for all of your hard work, my condolences on the loss of your sister-in-law, and I wish you good fortune and health going forward
Thank you for the kind wishes, deeply appreciated!
I agree that some Manhattanites should get exemptions, and hopefully a new iteration of the plan will allow for that. There’s certainly ways to fix it without throwing the whole thing out!
Agreed! I hope this ends up working out for the best! It's just been frustrating to never see addressed the concerns of Manhattanites who do have cars and travel out of the city a lot for legitimate reasons
The framework for congestion pricing already has a carve out for low income car commutters.
The MTA has been working on this long before she was in office and she herself has been suportive of it up till now for seemingly no reason other than she all of a sudden thinks a small cohort of car commuters have more right to the city than everyone else. Also its already signed into law, how does she get to tell the MTA to stop a project that is already in place?
Right, I think if Hochul were suddenly to have turned a whole new leaf in her career, and become a passionate advocate for disabled people, the working poor, etc, as she's now claiming to have done, then she'd have found a different way to help them than by completely putting the kibosh on a plan that on balance helps many more people who fit those descriptions than it hurts.
Congestion pricing in Manhattan is a gift to the rich residents in Manhattan. There has been very little upgrading of public transportation in decades. The braking system on NYC subways is a 1930s technology. The money that was supposed to update the systems has been squandered by the MTA which is an opaque, secretive organization which is comprised mainly of rich developers and their lackeys just look at the 7 train recent expansion which only served the owners and developers of Hudson Yards. The fact that they tried to force the extension of the 7 train to New Jersey where they also had properties is ample proof of their arrogance and sense of entitlement.
I have been a lifelong rider of NYC mass transit and have waited futilely my whole life to see any real improvement.
I believe that the funds raised will not be used to modernize or improve service but will be an incentive to move money currently in budget to other ends/purposes. Witness the NYS lottery whose funds were going to be used to increase public school funding. As lottery’s funds came in state/city funds were removed from the budget and used to benefit other entities, no net gain from lottery funds to schools.
Can someone clarify, doesn't the congestion pricing mechanism that Governor Hochul obstructed already provide for mechanisms mitigating or refunding most financial burdens on qualifying low income commuters?
Not really, they only give a 50 percent discount if you make under 50k a year, and it only applies to the 10th and above trip to Manhattan. And if you live in Manhattan and make under 60k a year, then you get an exemption, but only in the form of tax credits
Here is the link talking about it
https://new.mta.info/tolls/congestion-relief-zone/discounts-exemptions
Thanks for the link. It sounds like there is a specific carveout for disabled people like Michelle, who commented earlier here.
I am concerned about congestion pricing personally. It wouldn't just affect people who own cars, it would also affect people like me who have to take Uber/Lyft to get to doctor's appointments because I can't walk as far as the closest subway station to me and the station isn't accessible once I get there. I don't really have the luxury of being able to wait for the revenue to come in and hoping that they modernize my specific station + make it accessible.
It's a mixed bag. It will tax those rich enough not to care, but mostly those too poor to have options. Less cars is good, but most places our infrastructure is very car dependent.
So you think congestion pricing is a good idea? I follow More Perfect Union and guess there is a first time for everything. I have never known you guys to be nearly this short sighted or to have your head's completely up your keisters before. You contrive the one possible benefit while completely ignoring the hundreds of class divide exacerbating effects of such a horrible elitist idea as congestion pricing.
Genuinely curious: if it will benefit millions of people — largely from the working and middle classes — with critical improvements to the public transit they fully rely on, while only costing around 5k outerborough New Yorkers a regular fee thanks to exemptions and other mitigations, how is it elitist, and what would its class war-inflaming impacts be?
Again, I’m genuinely curious. I’m a reporter who tries to view things objectively before collecting all the information I can, but I’m also a New Yorker who doesn’t have a car (88% of Manhannites don’t, and overall, more wealthy New Yorkers have them than any other demographic), would like to be able to get to places without ungodly delays, and also would love my son to grow up with breathable air, so perhaps I missed some of the problems. I’d love to know about them for future reporting!
For the MTA funding, there's plenty of non regressive ways of getting. Wealth tax, increasing income taxes on people making 200k, etc. A congregation tax is a flat tax and the poor will pay a greater share of their wealth/income than the wealthy will. Climate change I agree with, if there's less cars then the air will get better. Another issue is that people who have to drive thru Manhattan but no stop in will have to pay, drivers will likely drive around Manhattan causing other streets/highways to get congested and also cost consumers more in gas due to more miles driven. The best way to get more cars off the road is to make public transit work better and also have public transit agencies in New Jersey and New York work better together
I would absolutely love to see a wealth tax in New York, but Hochul has made it clear that it isn't on the table. Tolls seem like regressive taxes, and in some cases they are, but as we note in the article, there are very few working class people who will be impacted.
As for people who drive through Manhattan but don't stop, they essentially never drive through Midtown; the FDR and West Side Highway are built around the outside of the island and won't be part of the tolls.
Congestion pricing is a terrible idea. They are plenty of less regressive ways of getting the MTA the money they need. I am very disappointed in More Perfect Union. As for congestion pricing working in European cities, unlike the USA they actually have the safety nets and a very good public transit system that can connect multiple towns and cities to make it work. Most working class people cannot afford to live in NYC, and they have to rely on rent stabilized units to live in the city. This law would also cause less people to visit the city causing restaurant workers to have their hours cut, it also affects blue collar workers who need their cars. The congestion tax is either going to be paid by the workers who need their trucks to haul their tools or by consumers who need to pay the congestion tax for contractors to come into Manhattan